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Ep. 9 Transcript

Episode 9:  Follow-Up #1 Amy

00:04
Welcome to Unpacked, an open-minded podcast taking a clinical, not political approach to helping pet parents around the world. I'm Sailor Jerry, certified dog trainer, virtual dog training revolutionary, owner of Tulsa Pack Athletics and creator of The Open-Minded Approach. And I'm Madison, her friend, certified dog trainer and behavior consultant. Together we have nearly three decades of experience in behavioral dog training.

00:28
We've been working with real dogs and the humans who love them to create solutions to problematic behaviors that feel too big for them to tackle on their own. In this episode, we are checking in on a previous guest from Unpacked. Dog training is a journey, that's no secret. So of course we're checking back in with our guests from season one to see how things are going. We're offering encouragement, adjustments, and the next steps to these incredible humans.

00:54
If you haven't yet been introduced to this case, go back and listen to season one and then return to this follow up episode. If you're caught up on season one, settle in with us and un-

01:07
Oh, Amy, it has been so awesome to be able to kind of touch base with you every, you know, every couple of weeks over the last few months. Jerry, Amy has this sort of format of filling me in on things that is, you know, some people go with highs and lows. Amy might call it farts and rainbows. You never know. It could be something different every time. But I just

01:33
the good debrief of what's going well and what is, you know, maybe a little bit of a struggle, maybe needs some adjustments. But I know that you have just been doing so much. And so I think what we should do is maybe we'll go dog by dog. Maybe we'll start with Mo because I feel like Mo has been on a pretty consistent trajectory since yes, since we got the plan in place. So talk to me about how things things have been doing with our girl. Oh my gosh, Mo is like a rock star. Like, oh, I can't I'm like

02:03
This is my dog. So we actually made it out to one of our favorite parking lots this weekend. And we're getting closer and closer. I love that you have your favorite parking lot. You are one of us. Well, some of them aren't very well lit. There's just sketchy people walking around. And I'm like, yeah, not feeling that tonight.

02:25
So yes, we have a favorite parking lot and it stays pretty busy. And with the holidays coming up, they're just getting more busy. So Mo is actually been getting closer and closer to the other cars. The other day there was like- And she's ready for it. She's really ready for it. She's been really consistently- She's ready. Yeah, like showing the same neutral behaviors that we're looking for of not assuming that every creature that enters her sight line is there to party with.

02:54
I don't know her. She's still, yes, she is a party animal. So there was this weekend she actually there was like a three part family, and they were just hanging out in the parking lot with their kids hooting and hollering and Mo was like, oh, and I was like, oh my god. Wow. So she gave you that gave you that look instead of.

03:18
She's going off to do what she wanted to do before. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. And if she's like a little overstimulated, then I'll do like a scatter. And then she comes back and she's like, there's more. I'd like some more, please. So it's been really fun. We went several spaces away from everybody. Then we crept up to five. Then we crept up to three. And now we're sitting at about like a good solid two. And within this week or so, we'll probably do down to one.

03:46
So, and I think that now, now that you have this sort of observation element of it, I think really locked in, there should moving forward be some opportunities for interaction, now that it's not assumed, right? Because she does want to agree, she does want to go say hey, and we can use that as an environmental reinforcer when it's appropriate. And we can come up with cues to be able to tell her like, yes, is now we get to go say hey or like, this is not the time, that's not the person.

04:16
And we can kind of, you know, just have those protocols because she is, she has been, I think, very consistent. Super consistent. And even, you know, the past few weeks, I was very honest with you. Like, I don't know if it was like starting to fight off some of this crud that's going around. Been super fatigued. Members have been at the credit union escalating with their economic issues. And I just been coming home like staring at the back of my head and I'll just sit there and I'll just toss food. I'm like, I'm sorry, guys, this is all I got today. And they're just like so excited. You're home.

04:45
We get to do things. So it's really cool. They understand that we don't always have a full tank and we have so much in place with them now. And I remember talking about this at our very first meeting that once you have been consistent and once you have been disciplined, having days off is like not a big deal. It's part of it because you've been showing up for them so much that on the days when you just don't have it, it's okay. They are willing to meet you where you're at on those days. Exactly. And the food scanners have been great with all the smells in the yard.

05:14
So I'll let them sniff a little and they'll be like, okay, let's come back over here. And then there's Mo. We will never be able to convey that exact face over the recording. That was so great. But it's so good. She's giving me a happy excitement. Yes. She is such a happy girl. She is. It's just for me, even at like my low points, I'll say ready. And she's like. Like a board of hollies staring at you. Wow.

05:44
This is so exciting. That's so good. So she's really completely graduated from driveway work, hasn't she? She completely has. And we've been walking in the front of the yard when we can. It looks like our neighbor here, one of the sons moved out. So it might be a really good opportunity to get us out in the street again. Cause they were having their dog walkers come or their mom walk the dog and they didn't have any control over those dogs. So they were running up on us. Thankfully.

06:11
It was more of a playful type of energy and it was no I was with. So, you know, they would grab their dog and go and I'm like, OK, that's not safe. I'm not coming out at eight thirty. That is not happening because this has happened twice in two weeks. Not doing it. And their dogs are. Which is an incredible observation. People need to pay more attention kind of to times when things are going on in the neighborhood like that. That's really good. Thank you. Don't be shy to track it.

06:34
whether you actually have a little notebook or dry erase board and you're writing it down or just drop it in our slides. Binoculars by the Drop it in our chat. Right. I'm kidding. That collection is important. No, okay. Yeah, let's not give binoculars. But the creepiest neighbor. So real quick, just want to ask back Amy to some sort of original goals in relation to both of the dogs with

07:00
The cooperative care, the vet visits, things like that. Was that both of the dogs or was that just one? It was both, but primarily Ace, because Ace is deathly afraid of the vet. With all his allergies and things, he has a lot of PTSD from the vet being poked and prodded. And he is also not keen on being uncomfortable. I'm gonna put that out that way. Same. So we'll come back to talk about Ace and we can talk about using some of the winter months.

07:28
to maybe start cooperative care, start muzzles, start those types of protocols, just because not quite as comfortable or fun for anyone to be outside. We can do some indoor stuff. And those can be activities that take a little bit less out of you at the end of the day too, less physical movement. So what are the sort of remaining big goals here for Mo? For Mo, I know we touched on it right before the fall came. Mo is really good until the dog looks at her.

07:57
And then she's like, oh, so I literally I literally have that plush dog. It's identical to one of the dogs that you had the plush dogs you had in one of your recent Instagram posts. It's still in the box. The big, the big one. Oh, the husky. Yeah, it's a great, it's a great, popular one for. Yeah, I've seen it a lot of places. That's great. They only really have two of those decoys that are like.

08:22
really realistic looking and it's the same company that makes it. I think it's called Melissa and Doug and they have a husky and a German shepherd. Is it the shepherd? Oh, yeah. Okay. It was really cute too. But I wanted something that was like, kind of deep. If I when when we're ready to cross that bridge with A's, I wanted something that was more comparable to his size, somewhere in between him and Mo. But yeah, that husky just I saw the shepherd and the husky and I was like, I think we're gonna go with the husky this time. I've seen more dogs fall for the husky than any other.

08:50
that I've used. And I've used a lot of inflatable decoys, which for hounds, actually, I've been, I've seen be really successful because it eliminates the smell. It's intentionally is not smell like a dog. And I think that sound triggers are very important. Sorry, smell triggers are very important for some dogs and breed groups in particular. So anyway, tangent. But a good one. Thank you. Think about too, if you have any...

09:17
dog people friends who maybe have a dog. And once you're through the decoy, once the decoy is no longer elicited any sort of reaction from her, you'll be ready to use dogs. And I think that it's easier if you can find somebody that has a, you know, maybe calmer or more neutral dog that they can meet at and stay at a consistent distance from you at a setup location versus trying to work it with dogs that are just moving and grooving on by. I think that when we can't

09:45
have any sort of control over the speed at which we're moving through that intensity of the trigger. If it's like, they're not here yet, they're not here, they're here, and then they're gone. It just oscillates too quickly. So we need it to be where we're at a 50 foot distance and we're staying at a 50 foot distance, provided that's not building up frustration, you know, we gotta get that under threshold distance. So start with the decoy, which she could absolutely react to massively, or she could be like, mom, that's a stuffy.

10:14
We'll find out, right? Enzo would not know it was a stuffy. Enzo still thinks that the same tree stump is a squirrel, and we've seen it 750 times. He would be like, no, that's a dog, and I don't care. I filmed Remy meeting the decoy, so I'll post that later so you can watch it. I need to do this. It's great. It's fun. All right, well, let's talk about Ace.

10:40
So Ace is a little bit more, I think, fits and starts just because deep down he's more, he's much more sensitive. He is much more, he's a big boy, but he's the more sensitive one. And he has more triggers and he is triggered more frequently throughout the day. With the sound sensitivity, especially. I find that dogs that are sound sensitive, the progress is just a little bit slower. It's just going to be because they have more episodes. Absolutely. And that's exactly what it's been lately.

11:09
between the delivery trucks coming more and he's like we talked about initially those big engines. He really does not like them. They make him uncomfortable. They vibrate the house and the ground. He doesn't like that. We have a neighbor here that has company over pretty regularly. And so it's like, you know, during the afternoons, it's a lot of cars, people out there talking, that kind of thing makes him kind of nervous. But one of the rainbow moments was

11:39
He, even when he hits closer to that threshold where he wants to like shoot off, he will stop himself like mid shoot off and just look back at me. So that's a- That's not just a rainbow. That is like a glitter bomb explosion. Yeah, that's pretty big deal. Yes, and it's happened the past couple of days because the weather has been kind of like back and forth, but still like pretty autumn-like, which is really abnormal for West Michigan. Usually by now it's like a snowstorm. Yeah, winter is winter and it's here, right.

12:09
Winter is wintering hard. And so it's been really cool to see, like you said, it's not as consistent with Ace because some days he's just like super, super sensitive to the world. And some days he's not but the past few weeks, you know, the critters and things are back out because it's warm. And he has stopped himself at least three times. Whereas, you know, as I shared with you before, I would chance, you know, him dragging me to the ground or I had to quickly let go of the leash if he was going off really fast. So that's a huge deal.

12:38
And even last night when he was hearing more sounds going towards the window in ace fashion, he gets past the couch and he pauses and he goes, I will take it buddy come get your food. That's that's pretty good. I think. Are you watching me? Is she watching me? She's watching me. I get food. There's something I'd like for you to try and start tracking informally. But

13:05
On the days that you notice that he has a high number of maybe like sound sensitivity triggers or reactions within the home, pay attention to how he sleeps that night and if the next day is potentially a very sensitive day for him. I think that when we look at a high number of, really it's trigger stacking throughout a full day.

13:29
And think about with us too, right? We have a really, really stressful day. Having good rest that night is very important to reset and be able to tackle the next day. And potentially if he's having a lot of reactions, a lot of sound sensitivity episodes, and then not getting maybe a full good night's rest, he might be having a sensitive day the next day. Yeah, and with him being my more sensitive dog, I've noticed that when he was younger as well. But I've been going through kind of like this weird funky loop of

13:59
not feeling as consistently well rested and with him being such a sensitive, oh he's still in tune with me, that like he will start to be thrown off as well. So I've been working on getting us back on a more, you know, going horizontal at a certain time so that it would make it easier for us to kind of coast off because normally I'm like, oh shoot it's like 11 o'clock we need to be in bed like as soon as possible and then you know getting that whole process done real quick. It's, it just

14:28
is super important. Your circadian rhythm, dog's circadian rhythm is really important because it releases particular hormones when you go to bed at the same time every night that we really need. And dogs, dogs are the same. So that's good. Everyone needs to take note of that practice of it's my bedtime at this time. And Ace will let me know, Ace will let me know with him. He'll be eight in next week, this coming, the twenty, the twenty-fourth. He'll be eight already.

14:58
But he's letting me know like 930. He kind of gives me this look like, Ma, I'm ready. Same. I'm ready. Can we go now? Or Ma would just be there up in my grill like. Yeah, especially Ace. I might start putting him to bed sooner just because he's just letting me know that, hey, it's time. Yeah. When was the last time you can recall a redirection between them? A redirection.

15:27
I almost can't. Like, they've been doing super well. And I've, there was one slip up at the very early part of our plan where I think, I don't know if it was like forgot or something, but there was a little bit of altercation because they were cuddling with me. And then they popped off and I was like, oh shoot, I'm not supposed to have them out at the same time. So aside from bedtime, where Ace has his spot in the room, Mo has her spot in the room. If Ace gets up, there's something at the window or Mo wants to greet him when he comes in.

15:56
the moment I start to see that hard eye contact, I'm like, okay, we're gonna, we're not doing that. But aside from that, they're in their crates, or we're rotating them out. And it's been really, really good for both of them, I think, because in those moments where we're ready to go to bed, it's like, Oh, I haven't really hung out with you today. Hello. Oh, we're going to bed now. So it's like, it's really good. So they get that little interaction and like, we're gonna go to sleep.

16:26
I think that they both have so many more coping skills than they had six months a year ago, that if they're getting 10, 15 minutes kind of in the same room at night, like let's go for 20, 30 and let's be practicing in place, taking turns, using some of the time when we're training to have them be around each other, but sharing your attention. And I think that they're ready for that. You could also add in an additional layer of management.

16:53
and get some type of X pen to kind of split the room in half and have their beds on either side. And then you're kind of on the sofa in the middle. And you could do that even with the food games with the food loops. Just tossing over the side. But I think that you also have so many more skills and so many more, you know, active management systems in place with them that not every day push it, but I think follow your gut and as and when it feels right to start to increase

17:23
their time out together do because we're not seeing the issues that prompted us to need to have the separation and I know that having them be out and together all the time is not the real goal here but I do think that there's a little bit more opportunity there to have them coexist even more. Okay cool that's nice to hear I bet. Yes yes I remember yeah in

17:52
the leash reactivity course that we started last year. And just to see where we're at now versus where we started. Like I remember posting videos where I was hand feeding them a couple feet apart in the foyer. And we did that, you know, two, three weeks. You know, I remember at that time, I think Ace was going through something. So I actually had like rice and chicken thrown into a bowl because he is so messy, he'll get it everywhere. So that's where everything started. And like now that he almost redirects himself.

18:21
you know, when he sees or smells a bunny or something, I'm like, this is so awesome. The other piece that we are still working on with him is the bunnies in the yard. And Amy and I have ordered some plush bunnies to hide out in the yard to be a visual. And we ordered a bunny pelt as well to be a smell trigger so we can do some desensitization there. And I think that that's one that we just do a little bit at a time. It probably makes sense to be tackling that more in the spring.

18:48
you know, when things are going on, maybe try and start that a little bit before the critters really start to emerge. That way you can sort of just have your fake bunnies be the only bunnies in the yard. Yeah, it gets confusing. I have some thoughts out there and let me tell you, what do you have in your mouth? Oh, I got you that. Okay. I mean, I don't know. Sometimes it looks real. Yes, that's the point.

19:18
That is the point. Oh my God, that's funny. So what about Ace with the car? Have we, have we, I know we've been working with him in the garage. Yes. Yeah. How's that going? So that's been going pretty well. That last clip I sent you maybe two to three weeks ago is still pretty accurate. I think he's gotten accustomed to this neighbor over here. They've got like a pickup truck and they like to, and a Jeep and they like to, they like to slam them.

19:48
that particular impact, because it is closer to the house, there is a little bit more vibration going on. But I think it's the ones that are, he's not used to hearing all day. I think it's the ones on this side, where they have company, or they're outside talking, or, you know, there's just some lingering going on. I think that's what he's like, that's not as familiar. I don't recognize that Toyota ref for. Right, right. Going on out there,

20:17
At night, I've been trying to figure out what that is. I don't know if it's people are leaving, coming in on that side, but he's been popping off at night. So can you do some sound at night? Play like a white noise machine or some like calming classical music just to just to dampen it a little bit. Yes. So we do that all day. OK, we do that all day. And then at night, I used to switch over to like more firecrackling sounds because we didn't need that.

20:46
type of volume at night, but it looks like we will continue that through the evening, especially as those delivery vans come through. He is not cool with that. Yeah, we're still working on the delivery vans. I think we could do some intentional sound desensitization of those delivery van noises. I think, again, like the winter time, we can prioritize some of these these modification setups that can more easily happen inside, where we don't have to go somewhere to set them up, whereas Mo is kind of at

21:15
you know, field trip stage, if you will. And they're fun. Like, we just get to hang out and the back of our van is like super easy to do. And she just sits on that ledge and she's just like. She does great with it. So I think looking forward to potentially, you know, shifting some goals, putting some more integration goals onto your list. Now that Mo's reactivity is really in a much better place, like much, much better place. And I think that Ace.

21:44
is is on his way. I really do. Keep an eye out for the episodes that we do with Cammie. So her dogs, her episode is about intra-household conflict and her dogs Daisy and Duke, they are probably two steps, two steps beyond where you are in terms of the integration. So you're going to be able to watch their process and say, okay, eventually I could be.

22:10
at that stage and you can see kind of what that would look like if you really, you know, a year from now, maybe, maybe ACES reactivity is in a totally different place and you really want to focus on the integration. That'll give you a good idea for that framework. Okay. So what else is going on? What, what, what, what are the latest rainbows? What are the latest farts? The latest rainbows and the latest farts. Hmm. We're going over moles with ACES.

22:38
I think it's because he's touching go, I almost don't register them as rainbows and farts just because every day is a little different. But the fact that we're going from the look at it game to the look away is a really big deal. Like he takes two steps on that laminate, he's like. And I know at the beginning he was starting to figure it out. Like if I look at the thing, mom does something.

23:05
And it would take us a few rounds to do that. But now it's like, okay, we've already established a pattern that when this happens, this follows after. Right. And even, and sometimes I'm like, okay, I'm gonna let him go towards that window and see what happens. Is he just gonna grunt? Is he gonna, I just need to see that body language of like, okay, I hear something, I'm gonna go towards the window or I'm just gonna go to the window, I don't hear anything. And the fact that I can get him away from that window.

23:33
If he's a level five, if he's a level seven, I can get him away from that window. And that treat and train that Coco was talking so much about, I can be in the next room. He'll be in his crate and he'll pop off and I'll just like boop, boop. And I feel like having that extra hand has been so helpful and reinforcing that modification. You know, whoa, I hear a sound, whoa, I hear a sound. Boop, ba-ba. Yeah. Yep.

24:02
We just, there's three more coming. I love these sets like that, yeah. And I have the sound on. I think that you're ready to maybe start with just the visuals of the bunnies, like one stuffed bunny in the yard. Okay, okay. Not with the pelt, not with the smells, not a whole family out there, but single bunny. And yeah, what that treat and train is doing is just like our yes and pay, it has an incredibly strong classically conditioned.

24:31
pattern, just like you said, that prediction. He knows when he hears that beep boop, he's going to get a snack over in the snack zone, right? So I think that those treat and trains and any type of remote reinforcement delivery system like that automatically reinforces getting distance from the thing, the window, the sliding door in this case. I use, we have like an automatic feeder for our cat. I use that.

24:57
It works the exact same. It makes a noise and then you hear the clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, and the animals come running. Yeah, and it's been such a godsend. I was like, I'm so glad that I worked towards getting one of them because at the beginning I was still figuring finances out and what we need and what made sense, you know, and I remember when we before we started this type of approach to training, I could not pull him off that window. I could not redirect him. He was going at that window. Like it was the only barrier that was getting him to the other side.

25:25
And he was intense. His reactions were very intense and physically probably were feeling really unmanageable. Yes, yes. And that's one of the reasons why I felt like until I could find an approach that I feel would really work with him, I didn't feel comfortable taking him outside because of the intensity of his reactivity, you know? And so that has been one of the biggest things. It's like no matter how bad things get, it's never to the point where I have to like...

25:54
really assert myself to get him off that window, you know? And he hasn't really redirected towards me. He's just like, oh, food zone. I gotta go get my food, excuse me. Excuse me, mom, I gotta go get my food. So that's been really cool. Some days we go through a lot of the food because he hears so much out there and some days we don't, but you know, we just work out what we have. I found some treats at Target that are kind of like mid value.

26:22
He really loves those. They're in little cute gingerbread shapes and it just kind of popped the limbs off and give them to him. A lot goes a long way with this guy. I pop off two limbs and he's happy, you know? Amazing. But he loves it. And I haven't had much use for the highest value treats, our turkey jerky or our chicken jerky. I used to have to use those all the time, all the time over bunnies, over the sight of our neighbors, over, you know, oh, oh, oh.

26:51
The other day when he saw the Dutch Shepherd outside, he gave it a glance and he followed me back inside. Oh, that's awesome. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Is that the Nemesis? Is that the Nemesis dog for him? That's one of the Nemesis. Dogs period. Dogs period. All dogs. All dogs. But these two dogs out here, there's a Dutch Shepherd, there's like a poodle.

27:17
And then there's like one other, I can't remember what the other one is. It looks like some sort of retriever. Um, but they play out in the front yard with their, their owners all the time, off leash, very well trained dogs. And so every now and then ACE will see like something go, and he's like, what's that? Right. There's something out there. Mom, did you know? Yeah. The fact that he, and the dog, I think, glanced at him as well. So there was that moment and then it was very quick.

27:43
And I was like, did Ace actually see that dog or was that just me that he actually saw that dog? Oh, he saw it. He saw the dog. He saw the dog. It's Ace. He saw the dog. Right. He's like that human at the club that's always looking, like checking for somebody. That's Ace. Scanning. Scanning. Yeah. Just scanning all the time. Scanning sounds like a huge win. Super, super cool. Because normally it's I see, I smell, I go.

28:13
And oh, you are back there. Sorry. I love that. Well, I almost forgot about that for us. So I think the only thing that's really left is not only like, where do we go from here, which we touched on, the X-Pen and Mo and her field trips and winter rising kind of like our regimen. Is there anything else with, especially with ACES?

28:37
barrier reactivity. Is there anything else we could do for him or is it just something we have to continue as a like just a matter of time kind of thing where we kind of continue what we've got in place and move forward with what we've got in place? That's kind of my curiosity is there a stone left unturned with that guy? Are you waiting for me? Oh, I thought Madison was gonna say something and I'm like leaning in to hear it. What No, what I think is

29:07
So like these things that you're seeing that are milestones, these small little things, that's the point where just remember this, 1% better each day. So it's you stack just a little bit on that when you see consistency. So like, if you're working on a particular thing, my kind of rule is, is it what percentage are you doing it at? Is it 90%? If it's 90% or greater, you're doing pretty good. You can maintain that, you can move on a little bit. But if you're trying something and it's like,

29:37
every other time is a hit or a miss, you really probably should stay there because you're not, your batting average is not great. You know, at that, at that point, it's like, I think about everything like ABCD, like just like a grading system. And if you're at 50%, well, that's, that's enough. You know, we don't need to be moving on. I think about

30:06
you can push it. That's that's my sort of average. Now, dogs are different in terms of their resilience to so some dogs you may feel like we're going to talk about that before the resiliency of ACE may be a lot lower lower, which means you may want to get five in a row before moving on. You know what I mean? Whereas with with with Mo, a fail, which a failure just means that they didn't meet the criteria, which is not the end of the world.

30:35
But what we're saying is that for Ace, it may be more important to set him up to be successful and to set that criteria up so we know he's gonna be successful. Because Mo can handle a miss a little bit easier. She'll bounce back a little bit quicker. Yeah, yeah. She's like, oh, there's still more food in the pouch. And honestly, that's one of the many reasons why I just kept him literally the station in the garage, just midway through the garage. That garage door is halfway open. I make sure to pull my van out so he can actually see out there and have space.

31:05
But even when he reacts, he's taking two steps. You know what I mean? He's just announcing that, hey, I'm here, and I'm not OK with this. And we're able to scatter him until he kind of calms down a little bit before I can put him back on the station. So that's a huge deal. So it's just, for me, watching Kiss Body Language is trying to understand what he's OK with and what he really is like, I need to be as far back into this garage as possible, because I don't feel OK with this.

31:33
So I would adjust that setup then. I would think if we are still doing the same setup that we were a couple months ago, that we need to make it way easier. I think no visual. In the garage with the sounds of the world, no visual. I agree. So close the door and everything else stays the same. We're gonna make it even easier. Now we're just working on the sounds. Okay. And we are going- That's not abnormal either, Amy. I mean, I see that a lot where I'm like,

32:01
this particular setup that may work for five other dogs is just too much for that one dog. It's normal. And you will go faster by going slower. Yeah. By taking the step back, you're gonna see the progress. Yep. I remind myself a lot with him because like you said, he isn't as resilient as Mo and he is very, very sensitive to me, to the environment, to any changes in the environment, to many moment to moment changes. And so for me, it's like, okay, where are we at?

32:31
in this moment and what can I do to help us feel a little bit more confident or feel a little bit more comfortable so that you know even even if we aren't just going to to potty for a few minutes what is his whole demeanor in that moment so just like you said just taking a back seat and having him show me where he is you know what does his movements look like is he really jerky today is he really nose to the ground today is he really twitchy today you know what smells are in the air

32:58
Is that Dutch Shepherd out running back and forth with their owner? You know, there's neighbors he's not familiar with coming down the hill at the side of their house and they're making rustling sounds, you know? So I guess the opportunity in the season is that we're preparing for the next season. So things are changing. So I'm learning, okay, there's a lot going on outside for him to receive. How was he doing with that? And how can I use what we have in place?

33:27
to help him feel a little bit more comfortable. I don't think he's ever gonna feel comfortable with humans coming down the side of this hill right here. Possibly, but at least he'll get used to seeing it and being like, oh, where, oh, Mob Threat just threw some chicken jerky. I think I'm a little bit okay with this. That happens, chicken jerky just drops to the ground. It's wonderful. It's raining chicken jerky. You got it. That's the idea, that's the idea. Of course. All right, Amy, I am gonna be in touch within the next.

33:55
couple of weeks, we're going to get your aftercare set up. And we are going to keep plugging and chugging towards these goals. But thank you so much for your time today. Yeah. We made it. All right, we'll talk to you soon.

34:12
Unpacked was created by Jerry Sheriff and Madison Simpson, edited and produced by Josh Wasta under the supervision of Straight Up Dog Talk, LLC and Emily Breslin. If you are enjoying this podcast, follow or subscribe to be sure you don't miss an episode and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Looking for more honest and relatable dog content? Check out our sister podcast, Straight Up Dog Talk. See you next time.

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